3 thoughts on “Andrew Vertigan on a new partnership”
There is nothing new about getting out on the streets and meeting people where they are. Jesus did it and surely if Gods word is being preached fromthe pulpit, those who hear the word shpuld do the same. Living the truth is fundamental to our ‘being Church’. WE are church, not the building – the living body of Christ inthe world today. Just as the word became flesh inChrist so too, the Word, Christ Jesus, desires to become flesh in us.
Where I think you should be careful is in aligning yourself with the heresies of many who see themselves as leaders in the Emerging Church. You only have to check out the things that Bishop John Shelby Spong to see how the devil has infiltrated the movement.
I was therefore dissapointed at the answer given onyour own web site to the question ‘What is the difference between fresh expressions and emerging church?’ Watch out – there’s a roaring lion about.
In terms of theology or understanding of mission, there is no fundamental difference. Those who prefer the phrase fresh expressions and those who prefer the phrase emerging church are both seeking to develop new ways of being church that are culturally and contextually relevant. There is a very high degree of commonality in the values of fresh expressions and emerging church.
I love reading about how people are getting in touch with others outside the church, but I would like to balance this out a little bit. After a major breakdown in 1986/87 as a Christian I spent five years recovering outside the church because the church did not know how to minister to me or help me. It was from this tragic situation that Focus supports groups were developed and as founder for five years I ran a project for the marginalized. It was very evident that the people I helped could not go straight into a church, so Focus became the stepping stone. Focus groups are down to earth and relevant to those who were broken. Many came including addicts, and the mentally ill. It worked. They came. Just a more humane, loving, accepting non-judgmental environment. Something the church should be but sadly isn’t. There is no room in the church for broken people, because they are disruptive, smelly, different, scary. Equally, church people need teaching on this area. I set up a drama for that purpose and have offered a Focus presentation to help churches understand why Focus groups are important. Because from that stepping stone integration into the body of Christ is possible. While the project ran in Cambridge it won two awards but unfortunately I could not get the support I wanted in the church to keep it going so after five years I stopped the project. Fear in Christians was a big problem. Unless we teach and show Christians about their own self indulgent life style that they must not only repent from but have a fear of God more than fear of man, it will not change.
Firstly a brief word of thanks to Billy Cowgill for introducing me to Bishop John Selby Spong. Its so encouraging to find another thinker who can shake up the narrow mindset of much of the evangelical world. Jesus was a heretic and if Spong is a heretic its just a matter of perspective. We should listen to the man before taking cheap shots at our brother http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=92yp1u0yfl4
Alongside Rob Bell, Hugh Halter, Michael Frost and many others Bishop Spong has much to say that we should listen to and allow God to use to change us by the renewing of our mind. Its challenging just because these guys are 100 progressive questions further on that we are. Start asking questions (seeking truth) and its highly likely anyone will journey to a similar place.
On the subject of Fresh Expressions, I am pleased to discover that The Salvation Army is tentatively exploring new ways of doing things but I am conscious that most significant changes always come from the ground up.
As a shepherd in a Salvation Army congregation that has transitioned light years from the norm, I would say that this has to be about more than practices and methodologies if it is going to make a difference.
There has to be a change of attitude / mindset before there will be any real impact. There has to be a re-framing of what it means to be good news people if its not just going to be another form of attractional evangelicalism. Let’s stop trying to save the church and start trying to BE kingdom minded change agents outside the Christian bubble where every day life matters to God. When we have worked that out we will be able to shepherd others out of the pen to find new pastures.
There is nothing new about getting out on the streets and meeting people where they are. Jesus did it and surely if Gods word is being preached fromthe pulpit, those who hear the word shpuld do the same. Living the truth is fundamental to our ‘being Church’. WE are church, not the building – the living body of Christ inthe world today. Just as the word became flesh inChrist so too, the Word, Christ Jesus, desires to become flesh in us.
Where I think you should be careful is in aligning yourself with the heresies of many who see themselves as leaders in the Emerging Church. You only have to check out the things that Bishop John Shelby Spong to see how the devil has infiltrated the movement.
I was therefore dissapointed at the answer given onyour own web site to the question ‘What is the difference between fresh expressions and emerging church?’ Watch out – there’s a roaring lion about.
In terms of theology or understanding of mission, there is no fundamental difference. Those who prefer the phrase fresh expressions and those who prefer the phrase emerging church are both seeking to develop new ways of being church that are culturally and contextually relevant. There is a very high degree of commonality in the values of fresh expressions and emerging church.
I love reading about how people are getting in touch with others outside the church, but I would like to balance this out a little bit. After a major breakdown in 1986/87 as a Christian I spent five years recovering outside the church because the church did not know how to minister to me or help me. It was from this tragic situation that Focus supports groups were developed and as founder for five years I ran a project for the marginalized. It was very evident that the people I helped could not go straight into a church, so Focus became the stepping stone. Focus groups are down to earth and relevant to those who were broken. Many came including addicts, and the mentally ill. It worked. They came. Just a more humane, loving, accepting non-judgmental environment. Something the church should be but sadly isn’t. There is no room in the church for broken people, because they are disruptive, smelly, different, scary. Equally, church people need teaching on this area. I set up a drama for that purpose and have offered a Focus presentation to help churches understand why Focus groups are important. Because from that stepping stone integration into the body of Christ is possible. While the project ran in Cambridge it won two awards but unfortunately I could not get the support I wanted in the church to keep it going so after five years I stopped the project. Fear in Christians was a big problem. Unless we teach and show Christians about their own self indulgent life style that they must not only repent from but have a fear of God more than fear of man, it will not change.
Firstly a brief word of thanks to Billy Cowgill for introducing me to Bishop John Selby Spong. Its so encouraging to find another thinker who can shake up the narrow mindset of much of the evangelical world. Jesus was a heretic and if Spong is a heretic its just a matter of perspective. We should listen to the man before taking cheap shots at our brother http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=92yp1u0yfl4
Alongside Rob Bell, Hugh Halter, Michael Frost and many others Bishop Spong has much to say that we should listen to and allow God to use to change us by the renewing of our mind. Its challenging just because these guys are 100 progressive questions further on that we are. Start asking questions (seeking truth) and its highly likely anyone will journey to a similar place.
On the subject of Fresh Expressions, I am pleased to discover that The Salvation Army is tentatively exploring new ways of doing things but I am conscious that most significant changes always come from the ground up.
As a shepherd in a Salvation Army congregation that has transitioned light years from the norm, I would say that this has to be about more than practices and methodologies if it is going to make a difference.
There has to be a change of attitude / mindset before there will be any real impact. There has to be a re-framing of what it means to be good news people if its not just going to be another form of attractional evangelicalism. Let’s stop trying to save the church and start trying to BE kingdom minded change agents outside the Christian bubble where every day life matters to God. When we have worked that out we will be able to shepherd others out of the pen to find new pastures.
Go for it Andrew!!