Don’t forget joy and laughter in discipleship!

Messy Church founder Lucy Moore, in her latest interview with Fresh Expressions, emphasises the importance of joy and laughter in the journey of discipleship.

Watch or read the full interview below.

Hundreds of Messy Churches have been formed in the UK, and across the world, since the first one launched in Cowplain, Hampshire, nine years ago. Lucy says the question is increasingly being asked, 'Now what? Is Messy Church really making disciples?'

She comments,

This is a really interesting and difficult question to answer.

Messy Church congregations are starting from a different place than many who would normally be coming into some sort of discipleship process, comprising a different set of people with a different set of expectations and perhaps prejudices.

So what we've found really helpful is to think about discipleship as a process or a journey. Instead of simply asking if people have become disciples or Christians in Messy Church, we prefer to ask, 'Are they becoming disciples; are they becoming Christians?' The answer is, 'Yes, hugely,' but they are just starting from a long way back in many cases.

The result is that Messy Church is currently reassessing what discipleship involves in the way of learning.

It's not just cerebral learning, intellectual learning,

adds Lucy,

but it's also valuing the non-formal learning and the social learning which are hugely powerful in Messy Church and a crucial part of discipleship – whole life discipleship, not just head discipleship.

This is a long haul and it's why Messy Churches are there as church, not as events. They're there month by month by month over a period of years, carrying people through on their Christian journey and accepting that this is a very gradual process for them.

The challenge for those leading a Messy Church is to offer as many chances to encounter God as possible in the limited time span available.

I wouldn't want to undervalue what goes on through joy and fun and play in Messy Churches. I think that's actually very deep in many ways but it is probably undervalued when it comes to discipleship. We (the church) tend to value the quiet, solemn, mysterious, things and undervalue the joy and laughter and re-creation that goes on.

Lucy says Messy Church has considered devising a discipleship course but the feeling at the moment is,

Not yet. If ever. If we start prescribing what discipleship should be rather than allowing people to think it through for themselves, to allow each church to discover a way that's right for those people, those families, those teams; I think we could be missing out on something exciting that God's got on offer for us. So maybe the time will come for a course, I don't think it's yet.

Paul Moore's book, Making Disciples in Messy Church – Growing faith in an all-age community, is published in March. Lucy comments,

I hope it will help people to think through the principles of it all rather than giving them ready made answers and I think that could be the catalyst that could send us off in exciting new directions as each church attempts – and fails and succeeds – with its own Messy Church. It will make progress but there will be a lot of failures along the way because this is new, this is pioneering stuff and it's not been done before. How do you grow atheists into disciples in this context as families, all ages, together? As far as I know it's not been done in quite that way before so it will be exciting to see what God's got up his sleeve for us in the next few years!

Don’t be so defensive! (Ben Norton)

Ben Norton lays down a challenge to not be so defensive.

Reflecting on the developing fresh expression of church that I was part of in Bridlington, one thing has struck me recently – and that has been that when it comes to fresh expressions of church we should not be so quick to defend and justify them.

It is an easy trap to fall into, especially for the pioneer who will have ploughed a lot of blood, sweat and tears into birthing a new community. Of course everyone wants newly formed fresh expressions of church to be successful in reaching those who have no connection with either faith or church. We want them to look good, but it is easy to miss the reality of authentic markers of church. There is also the fact that at times we might want to measure how well they are doing by comparing them to other inherited forms of church to see how well they are getting on.

One of the hardest things I find when it comes to critiquing fresh expressions of church is that the only yardstick we have got is one that seems rather inadequate for the job. The tools no longer fit the situation, tools such as critiquing new communities using orthodoxy and doctrine as a way of interpreting what is going on. Whilst these issues are important they might not always be easily recognisable in the way we might want to understand them.

For example, one of the comments of the fresh expression in Bridlington was that it seemed that we never actively preached the gospel, in so much as there was no recognised reading and expounding of the scriptures. I believe the question therefore is one that can be found in the Psalms, at a time when God's people found themselves in an unfamiliar place, with no recognisable markers to order their sense of God. In Psalm 137.4, we read,

How shall we sing the Lord's song in a foreign land?

The ‘foreign land’ for us is cultural rather than geographical.

What we did do is take a hermeneutical approach to exploring issues in the news. Exploring, sharing and debating the topics that everyone was facing. It was through this way of engaging with each other that conversations of faith, ethical, moral, and spiritual ideas were put forward and critiqued and pondered by those who did not profess a faith-based worldview. Viewpoints were aired and language used that some people may feel shocked or offended by. Indeed I often asked myself the question 'what would people say if they thought this was church?'

Of course this was an environment in which everyone was welcome and all views were encouraged to be shared. They would be challenged at times and although there were never any serious consequences the debates would get heated. It was messy and I, as the pioneer, constantly felt vulnerable about what it was we were doing. With questions like 'Is this church?', 'Are these men seeing and hearing the teachings of Jesus?', 'Can we see authentic signs of the Kingdom here?' and always in the back of my mind were the voices of those who would criticise no matter what we did.

But on reflection, I believe that if a fresh expression of church is authentically engaging with and creating disciples then it will look most of the time anything but successful – just like the disciples, and the early church. In fact I would go so far as saying that a mark of authenticity would be that the community would be very fragile – and most of the time in crisis. I say this not only from my own experience but also reading Paul's letters to the early church (1 Corinthians 1.10-17) in which he sorted out the issues arising as new disciples worked out their faith in a messy and uneasy way.

There is an album by the band Dubh called 'Fractured, broken and beautiful'. I believe that this sums up the church in every place and not just fresh expression communities, but this is what we want. A church reliant upon the saving grace of God though the continued work of the Holy Spirit.

Vitalise – update Feb13 (formerly WPM)

Wolverhampton Pioneer Ministries (WPM) was established in 2007. As its current leader Tim Judson moves on to train for Baptist ministry, he tells how what is now known as Vitalise has successfully developed young and indigenous leaders to continue the work there.

Vitalise features in one of our case studies.

The shape and vision of this fresh expression has steadily evolved over time. I joined in September 2010 and, since then, the focus and direction has shifted again – much as a river will carve out its journey based on the terrain around it.

The vision we adopted at WPM serves as a holistic description of who we are and what we want to be, namely to worship fully, love all and serve the city. There is no doubt that God has used WPM in transforming lives around Wolverhampton but I would want to emphasise and honour the many inherited churches, organisations and people which work alongside us as well. We are a partnership of support and resources from the Church of England, Methodist Church and Youth for Christ, but we have almost every denomination represented in our community and that is without a shadow of doubt a strength for us, if at times requiring a little bit of dialogue!

It has sometimes been argued that WPM is simply a youth church. Whilst we clearly do work with a large number of young people, 47% of the 135 people we serve regularly in our community are aged 19 or over. Our activities include mid-week groups, mentoring, a Sunday gathering and other such events.

Vitalise - praiseThe Sunday get-together, Vitalise, currently meets in the basement of Darlington Street Methodist Church. This is focussed on authentic worship, relevant biblical teaching, community, creative prayer, exploring gifts and developing leaders. As things have moved on, the name Vitalise is generally used more widely with people in the community now referring to all that we are as Vitalise, they don't tend to speak of it as Wolverhampton Pioneer Ministries – though we are still very much pioneering in outlook.

We serve people from a wide range of church backgrounds, age groups and ethnicities. In terms of church, it breaks down along these lines: Anglican (32%), Methodist (7%), Baptist (5%), Roman Catholic (2%); Non-conformist (23%) and Non-church (31%).

Vitalise has organised, or been heavily involved in, a number of initiatives and events in recent years. These have included:

  • three members of staff being trained to deliver the Christians Against Poverty money course;
  • the Community of St Chad. We pioneered an exploration of the rule of life known as the rule of St Chad in September 2011, looking at rhythms of grace as a tool for discipleship;
  • contemplative prayer. A small group explores the use of contemplation for prayer, based on a lot of teaching from St Benedict, the Iona community and the Northumbria community;
  • HIV/AIDS day. Apparently no other church in the city had organised a service to remember those who have died or suffered because of HIV and AIDS. We arranged a service where we invited people, including those from the gay community, at St John's church;
  • inter-church relationships. A lot of time has been spent investing in relationships with local church leaders, youth workers and other significant people;
  • internships. In 2010, WPM took on four interns, the following year three 'companions' were enrolled and this current year we have an intern from the Methodist One Programme working part-time;
  • friday in the pub. Meeting on a Friday morning at the Lady Wulfrun pub for breakfast and Bible study. People from other church or non-church backgrounds come along to join us;
  • Vitalise - prayer breakfastmorning prayer and Bible study. Meeting at a Starbucks from Monday to Friday at 9am to pray for the wider world, our city and each other.
  • organic groups. Small groups operating in a cell church model, geared towards food, worship, biblical study and missional growth
  • PODs – Prayer, openness and discipleship are the three areas that these prayer triplets look at. The intention is for them to grow and then split so more people are being discipled.

One thing I think we are very strong in is leadership empowerment. WPM's previous leader, Arun Arora, really invested in that when he identified a few people who would have longevity in their leadership potential. I have taken that further and exponentially there are now many people who have developed as leaders, both in church and other work. They are active in various areas of the community's life, including worship leading and speaking.

Some might say, 'You are fortunate to have such a lot of leaders', but the truth is that a culture has grown up where leaders are highlighted, developed and empowered. In the last two years WPM has released five people for ordained ministry, two for Methodist local preacher courses and six for roles as lay workers. Others have been inspired to serve God overseas. This is a real melting pot for leaders!

Vitalise - facepaintThere have been 10 baptisms in the last two years, one of which was actually at the Vitalise Sunday gathering. Three people have also been confirmed. A number of non-church people have come to faith through WPM, including staff at Starbucks and people in the homeless and homosexual communities.

Quite early on I had to recognise my own strengths and weaknesses in this role. Two people work alongside me and they do brilliant jobs, each of them gifted in different ways. When Arun left, he actually commissioned the three of us as the team with me acting as an overseer. It works really well and means that not everything rests on one person. We are all journeying in this together though, in terms of responsibility for the whole thing, the buck does officially stop with me.

I have heard of fresh expressions where their future and their progress are all tied up in one leader. When he or she leaves it can bring the whole thing down. Whereas, when I leave for ministry training, I know that things will very much continue because there will be plenty of people to carry on with the ministry. I think that, right from the start of our time as leaders, we should be looking to work ourselves 'out of a job' through the development of others.

It's very difficult to define Vitalise in a way. I often refer to it in different ways in different contexts, sometimes it's a project, sometimes an organisation, sometimes a church or community. That happens because everyone who's part of Vitalise would see it differently themselves. For some, they don't go anywhere else in terms of church; it’s where they go for strength and growth and encounter with God. Others are based at local churches but will come to the Sunday gathering or prayer triplets, seeing Vitalise as 'another' church they go to or at least something which is part of their Christian growth. I'd say we are like a hub; a group of disciples making disciples.

Vitalise - music on the streetsAccountability is very important. We continue to be strongly supported by the Wolverhampton and Shrewsbury District of the Methodist Church, the Diocese of Lichfield and Wolverhampton Youth for Christ, and we have very good relationships with many local churches of various denominations. It's so important to be transparent and for people to know that we are not out to 'sheep steal' from them. It all comes down to relationship with integrity.

We have got secure funding for the next 18 months and we are grateful for continuing discussions about the way forward for that. However a lot of these new schools of church don't have someone on a stipend, and that's why – certainly in our case – we need to keep on finding and encouraging people who are committed to Wolverhampton on a long-term basis to continue the work. Then, by having a team leadership model, we could have something which is sustainable because it doesn't necessarily need any direct funding.